Asylum seekers & refugees in Finland

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Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Asylum seekers & refugees in Finland

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 26 Tammi 2016, 07:54

Hi all.
Discussing the refugee/asylum seeker issues in Finland with my Finnish wife, I realise she is very upset about the increase in sexual assults and increased violence towards women there. She is upset that the government has allowed this to happen and that the safe Finland she grew up in is fading quickly.

We have intentions of moving back to Finland in the next 2 years and obviously want a safe place for ourselves and our children to live.
Can anyone direct me to any lobbying or action groups who are actively lobbying the government to create change in this area?
Much appreciated.

Google translate:
Hei kaikki.
Keskustellapakolainen / turvapaikanhakija asioita Suomessa minun suomalainen vaimo, ymmärrän hän on hyvin järkyttynytlisääntyminen seksuaalisen assults ja lisääntynyt naisiin kohdistuva väkivalta siellä . Hän on järkyttynyt , että hallitus on sallinut tämän tapahtua ja ettäturvallinen Suomi hän varttui on hiipumassa nopeasti .

Meillä on aikomuksia siirtyä takaisin Suomessa seuraavan 2 vuotta ja ilmeisesti haluavatturvallinen paikka itsellemme ja lastemme elämään .
Voiko kukaan suoraan minulle mitään lobbausta tai toimintaryhmää , jotka ovat aktiivisesti lobbaushallitusta luomaan muutoksia tällä alalla ?
Kiitos paljon.

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Viestit: 3069
Liittynyt: 10 Maalis 2015, 09:13

Re: Asylum seekers & refugees in Finland

ViestiKirjoittaja vaaka » 26 Tammi 2016, 10:21

This is a very hot potato not only here but in Germany especially as well but also in other countries too. On new year's night there were record number of sexual assaults ever in Helsinki. In Cologne, Germany about 1000 men assaulted women as a group. The group assaul was the modus operandi here as well and the first media published event had happened already in autumn. The problem is Europe wide. There is a term for groups of men and teen aged boys fondling to gang raping women and I am not sure of the correct spelling. Tahar rush? The arab spring in Egypt centered on demonstrants at Tahar square in Cairo where women were gang raped. Monkey see monkey do might be seen as a racist comment but how does the old Finnish proverb relate to this behaviour model that goes: Stupidity concentrates in a group. Is it racist if a whole nation knows it beforehand prior to the said behaviour of gang assaults existing? Is it more like stupid is as stupid does? Gumpism. So who are the chumps since counting racists as Gumps does not compute?

I am afraid that the most vocal and visible opponents of refugees/asylum seekers are racist to criminal to neo nazi groups. There really seems to be little to be done in a civilized way. I fear that the problem persists as long as those people think the way they do and act criminally. Dunno if they learn from education and I am unsure of what is being taught those guys. The police is in the process of investigating the cases during new year's night so who knows hiw things play out as a result. Law abiding people or basic common sense applying ones would not do criminal acts so it may not be a deterrent that police is on the case. There is talk in many countries from politicians about expediting booting out of people who commit serious crimes.

Another aspect is that several thousands are trying to get out of here. They realized there are not that many jobs available and it is cold and the food is bad in their opinion. They have complained a lot and one thing waa the food. In the collection centre of Finnish Swedish border they were served the same food as Finnish kids at school. So bring the Aussie foodstuffs you can legally. is a franchise and the mother company went bust but the founder bought back the mother company so who knows how it goes in the future. The reason I mention this is that I have seen Marmite there but am unsure of current and future availability.

Politicians and law enforcement at least and probably immigration people are mulling over things so who knows where we are at when you come? Helsinki had the highest per capita rate of asylum seekers out of communities in Finland at one point. Hotels are plentiful here. Espoo has plenty as well and I read an article of a cabin owner by some lake complaining of constant loitering trashing and so on from a nearby center for asylum seekers. Young guys with precious little to do... Idle hands and all that.

A German originated group called Begida is organizing demonstrations all over Europe. The little I have read of them original German originators and what they do and say smells nazi to me. I was 20 something away from Cologne in early autumn at Dusseldorf and saw no problems and could not tell if anyone i saw was an asylum seeker. One million plus asylum seekers among 80 million Germans. Not sure of the current numbers here since it seems in flux. Russia pushes them here now that the influx through Sweden has stopped. Apparently the word got out that the criminals trafficking people here painted a too rosy picture of life in here. Opportunities are few.Also Sweden stopped giving free pass here and now police investigates the human traffickers behind the influx of refugees. This morning minister Haglund said on tv that Russian officials are pushing foreigners out to Finland. Norway closed the border earlier as a response after thousands came in a few days.

In my opinion it all is a Russian orchestration. Keep Syria in a civil war and push people to Europe. Iraq is another matter and Finland updated the security assessment of Iraq to be safe in the southern parts so talks among politicians are going on about the possibility of mass deportation to Iraq. Somalis to northern Somalia possibly as well. Afghanistan is another bag of worms. Those are the three nations from where the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers have come from to Finland.

I cannot say I know of any civil groups who promote what you seek. I do not count any of our political partues as such. Out if our uncivilized parties perussuomalaiset and keskusta have the longest tradition of anti immigration and imo racism. The other government party kokoomus has had contradictory trends historically and whike being right wing is less extreme right wing on immigration issue than keskusta. The situation may have changed somewhat from the past trend with many of the kooks of keskusta and kokoomus moving to perussuomalaiset. But those three making up the government is a triple threat to foreigners. It is not choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea because belzebuth is in the mix as well. So read this as opinions of someone that is disillusioned about politicians globally. They are no friends of the majority of people but they do hurt them. Pretending to be the hot shit and demanding respect or else... Can you say medieval times and the elite by another name are back as if they ever really had left. A king by any other name... Is still an asshole and if the labeling of crimes would be done unbiased according to the damage caused the criminal element among the asylum seekers are not the only wrong doers. Plenty of guilt to pass around. The work arounds of the questions you asked are in the making but how effective they are and when they come? The track record not only in Finland but world wide is not great. So who knows what will happen?

Overall I would still see Finland as a safe place comparatively. If there are terrorist infiltrators agitating the fools into committing crimes the safety situation could change quickly anywhere. Also who knows what happens with Finns if they are a significant enough part of them get fed up? Tensions can escalate quickly. The fact that Finland is the superpower of peace keeping and it is helped by long mindedness does not mean that there are also very quick tempers with many of us and damn there are many uncivilized Finns too :roll:

Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Asylum seekers & refugees in Finland

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 26 Tammi 2016, 12:03

A very hot potato indeed.
I feel for the Finns and how the various goings on have upset the established environment. Yes some foreigners have come and some left disappointed. I hoped the cold winters and (in their opinion) poor food keeps the insincere disappointed to be honest.

From what I have heard, the ratio of men to women is 10 to 1. And young men at that. I have no issue with people sincerely seeking asylum for safety, but economic migrants or people just wanting to take advantage of a country's good social security bothers me. Why should the tax payers subsidise these insincere people?
I have only asked these questions because I hear my wife's concerns.

The same happens in Australia to a lesser degree. I work in a public hospital. I see the tax dollars spent treating people who come intentionally for medical treatment, who have no intention of paying the bill. The tax payers foot the bill.

I am not interested in any of the extreme parties. I have heard of the racism that goes on. Well, 15 years ago anyway when we lived in Finland. I suspect various groups of Finns are growing in annoyance, and correct me if I am wrong, but Finns can be quite conservative, not speaking up until extremely annoyed. I may be wrong. My Finnish language is limited. These are just my opinions from what I have read and experienced in the last 20 years.
What I am trying to say is, in my opinion, it is so wrong to let insincere asylum seekers in, which may have the effect of changing the wonderful environment that Finland has. In the standard of living, education and health care, the clean, safe environment.

Australia has always been made up of foreigners. It has changed over time to include more people from Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Let's also not forget the racist, ignorant and inconsiderate that exist here too. It may have been great once upon a time, carefree and with a good standard of living, but I don't ever remember it being as balanced and relaxing as Finland is.

Erittäin kuuma peruna todellakin.
Tunnen suomalaisia ​​ja miten eri touhut ovat järkyttäneet perustettu ympäristöön. Kyllä jotkut ulkomaalaiset ovat tulleet ja joitakin jäljellä pettynyt. Toivoin kylmät talvet ja (heidän mielestään) huono ruoka pitää vilpillinen pettynyt olla rehellinen.

Mitä olen kuullut, suhde miesten ja naisten on 10 1. Ja nuoret miehet siihen. Minulla ei ole ongelma ihmisiä vilpittömästi etsivät turvapaikkaa turvallisuussyistä, mutta taloudellisista syistä muuttavat tai ihmiset vain haluavat hyödyntää maan hyvä sosiaaliturva häiritsee minua. Miksi veronmaksajien tukea nämä vilpillinen ihmiset?
Olen vain nämä kysymykset, koska kuulen vaimoni huolenaiheita.

Sama tapahtuu Australiassa vähemmässä määrin. Työskentelen julkisessa sairaalassa. Näen vero dollareita käytetään kohdella ihmisiä, jotka tulevat tarkoituksellisesti sairaanhoidosta, joilla ei ole aikomusta maksaa laskun. Veronmaksajat jalka laskun.

En ole kiinnostunut kaikista ääripuolueet. Olen kuullut rasismin joka jatkuu. No, 15 vuotta sitten muutenkin kun asuimme Suomessa. Epäilen eri ryhmien suomalaisista kasvavat ärtymystä, ja korjata, jos olen väärässä, mutta suomalaiset voivat olla melko konservatiivinen, puhu asti erittäin harmissaan. Voin olla väärässä. Minun Suomen kieli on rajallinen. Nämä ovat vain minun mielipiteitä mitä olen lukenut ja kokenut viimeisten 20 vuoden aikana.
Mitä yritän sanoa on, mielestäni se on niin väärin antaa vilpillinen turvapaikanhakijoille, joilla voi olla vaikutusta muuttaa ihana ympäristö, että Suomessa on. Vuonna elintaso, koulutus ja terveydenhuolto, puhdas, turvallinen ympäristö.

Australia on aina koostuu ulkomaalaisia. Se on muuttunut ajan myötä saatava enemmän ihmisiä Aasian ja Lähi-idän maissa. Oletetaan myöskään unohtaa rasistinen, tietämättömiä ja ajattelematon olemassa täälläkin. Se voi olla suuri Olipa kerran, huoleton ja hyvä elintaso, mutta en koskaan muista sitä on niin tasapainoinen ja rentouttava kuin Suomessa on.

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Liittynyt: 10 Maalis 2015, 09:13

Re: Asylum seekers & refugees in Finland

ViestiKirjoittaja vaaka » 27 Tammi 2016, 09:15

Unfortunately there is either more overt or more racism here than 15 years ago. During that time more foreigners have come here and they have brought more crime often in the most bone headed way like a national facepalm when the news of the misdeeds spread. Patience is wearing thinner.

There is a logic to so many young men being sent to seek asylum. They tend to survive long walks the best and if they reach the goal of asylum then the foot is in through the door for reuniting families. Which has been realized is an easier way for the old and infirm especially to emigrate. That has been realized all over Europe Finland included and is publicly debated by politicians and severe restrictions are being demanded more often by more politicians before.

Immigration as a phenomenon is an opportunity as well after the initial costs if the immigrants can work to cover the costs. It is hard for people from some countries to get work here. True or false people from some countries have been seen by employers as an average to be causing more trouble than they are worth and not being able to learn enough to be more productive than disrupting. Leading to some nationalities having only half of them working. Not exactly a good math problem of paying back the costs.

One problem is the traditional family in the countries where the least working families come from. Women stay at home often enough to not learn any Finnish at all or so poorly that they are unemployable even if the husband would allow her to seek work. Not exactly secure family income. I am not sure of the language issue but it is tightly related to Islam and consequently the language problems go hand to hand with nationalties and unsurprisingly the least employed nationalities are all Islamic. Then there is the matter of troubles that unwise behaviour causes outside of work. I have seen my share of booted foreigners whose skills and comorehension skills of both language and what needs to happen at work that i understand why employers do not jump loops of joy with all foreigners at the work place. I have come across stupid behavior of foreigners only once in person. Somalis see themselves as macho warrior culture apparently. Young men act on it.Those guys really rubbed the egg that they broke on their faces figuratively :roll:

Those were negative points but there are positive points as well. Religion need not be Islam for a traditional family system leaving the wife at home. It is common among Indians working here and I have only heard good things of Indians working. They tend to be professionals emigrating for work and a peaceful environment. Not so much a society rife with MMA on the streets ranging from fists to bombers on own cities and offering those services to anyone who do not ask them included. That kind of mindset is what forced many out of their country and it seems that many did not learn the lesson and act the same here. This is not the case with job based immigration so the experiences of foreigners are very polarized. Since many in rural Finland have not met or gotten to know immigrants illusions can run away. In larger cities chances of working with a foreigner gives a chance of learning that they are people too. The dumber the Finn the higher the chance of false sense of superiority. They tend to suffer more from confirmation bias than others when it comes to silly foreigners. I work with many nationalities and the polarization of mental capacity is painfully clear. It is not a matter of nationality, religion or language skills that allows people to keep on working. We have had to boot out many due to inability to cope with the demands of work and the people staying are from all over. Including the least employed nationality in half of the worst off nationalities. That Afghan is much smarter than the low brow Finns.

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Re: Asylum seekers & refugees in Finland

ViestiKirjoittaja Wacky » 30 Tammi 2016, 13:55

This blog is in Finnish, but I'm ste your wife will be happy to help translate the bits you may miss from it ... rosenttia/
Looking at the statistics only 0,08% of the total asylum seekers/imigrants are suspects in sexual assaults and this is based on numbers from the Finnish police so I wouldn't be too scared of sexual assaults being very common in Finland. There are currently about 1000 suspects for sexual assaults and 24 of them are asylum seekers so not really a large number of the total suspects either.
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