Which winter bike?

Täällä voit keskustella eri pyörämalleista tai kysyä vaikka neuvoa, jos valinta tuottaa vaikeuksia.
David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 03 Huhti 2016, 09:14

Hei kaikki.
Tulen uudestaan ​​Espoon 5 viikon saapuu viikko ennen joulua. Haluaisin tuoda pyörä minua taas. Kesällä 2015 oli Bacchetta Corsa jossa tapasin joitakin teistä LowRide 2015 [url] viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3992 [/ url]. Saattaa olla tai ei ole lunta Espoon sitten. Se on käsissä jumalten kai.

Olen ratsastanut kautta 4 tai 5 Espoo talvet hybridi vakiorenkailla kun asuimme siellä, työmatkaliikenne päivittäin pyörällä.

Mikä näistä on hyvä valinta talven pyörä?

Bacchetta Giro 20 (20/26, edessä levy, takana vanteen jarru) [url] http://www.bacchettabikes.com/bike/giro-20s/ [/ url]
Bacchetta 26ATT (26/26, dual levyjarrut) [url] http://www.bacchettabikes.com/bike/giro-26-att/ [/ url]
Haaste Fujin SL-1 (20/26, dual vannejarrujen) [url] http://www.challengebikes.com/fujinsl_detail.php [/ url]

2 Bacchettas mahtuu laaja renkaiden Fujin ei-niin-leveä, mutta tarkistaa.

Omat valinnat järjestyksessä ovat:
Fujin: Plussat: Rakkaus ratsastaa sitä. Miinukset: Ei etupyörän suojus, rajoitettu matkatavarat kuljettaa vaan työtä, että)
Giro 20: Plussat: Hyvä all-round pyörä. Lokasuojat, matkatavarat ok, matala istuinkorkeus, voi koskettaa maahan nopeasti ja helposti. Miinukset: Ei niin jännittävä kuin Fujin.
26ATT: Plussat: Hyvä all-round pyörä. Lokasuojat, matkatavarat ok, dual-levyjä. Miinukset: Korkeampi istuimen korkeuden, ei niin jännittävä kuin Fujin.

Kiitos mitään ehdotuksia / neuvoja.

Hi all.
I am coming over again to Espoo for 5 weeks arriving a week before Christmas. I'd like to bring a bike with me again. Summer 2015 was the Bacchetta Corsa where I met some of you on the LowRide 2015 http://www.nojapyorafoorumi.fi/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3992. There may or may not be snow in Espoo then. It's in the hands of the gods I suppose.

I have ridden through 4 or 5 Espoo winters on a hybrid with standard tyres when we lived there, commuting daily by bike.

Which of these is a good choice of winter bike?

Bacchetta Giro 20 (20/26, front disc, rear rim brake) http://www.bacchettabikes.com/bike/giro-20s/
Bacchetta 26ATT (26/26, dual disc brakes) http://www.bacchettabikes.com/bike/giro-26-att/
Challenge Fujin SL-1 (20/26, dual rim brakes) http://www.challengebikes.com/fujinsl_detail.php

The 2 Bacchettas can fit wide tyres, the Fujin not-so-wide but will check.

My choices in order are:
Fujin: Pros: Love riding it. Cons: No front mudguard, limited luggage carrying but working on that)
Giro 20: Pros: A good all-round bike. Mudguards, luggage ok, low seat height, can touch ground quickly and easily. Cons: Not as exciting as the Fujin.
26ATT: Pros: A good all-round bike. Mudguards, luggage ok, dual discs. Cons: Higher seat height, not as exciting as the Fujin.

Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 03 Huhti 2016, 09:40

Let me re-phrase that:
I think the Giro 20 is the best choice, but if it was kind of suitable, I'd prefer the Fujin.

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Wacky
Pistosuojattu sisällöntuottaja
Viestit: 2983
Liittynyt: 14 Heinä 2010, 12:38
Paikkakunta: Helsinki, Vesala

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja Wacky » 03 Huhti 2016, 10:03

Higher is better as low bikes are harder to balance
Wider tires are better up to 70mm wide as you get more grip, wider than that can help if you have no suspension
Larger wheels are better as they roll more easily on uneven ground (snow and ice tend to be uneven even when plowed)
Bike balance is also important. More weight on the drive wheel to have better tracktion. Rear wheel heavy rides are easier to handle on snow and ice.

We may not have any snow or ice around xmas so you may be fine with any bike
- Richard "Riku" Griffin
Savenmaa Alku (2010 - 2011) Azub Bufo (2011 - 2014) MetaPhrastic.28 (2012 ->) MetaPhat (2013 - 2017) Nopia (2017 ->) Specbike Extrim (2017 ->)

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PW
KOM
Viestit: 14462
Liittynyt: 09 Touko 2009, 21:22
Paikkakunta: Imatra

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja PW » 03 Huhti 2016, 10:41

Wacky kirjoitti:Higher is better as low bikes are harder to balance
Wider tires are better up to 70mm wide as you get more grip, wider than that can help if you have no suspension
Larger wheels are better as they roll more easily on uneven ground (snow and ice tend to be uneven even when plowed)
Bike balance is also important. More weight on the drive wheel to have better tracktion. Rear wheel heavy rides are easier to handle on snow and ice.

We may not have any snow or ice around xmas so you may be fine with any bike

I agree. My choice would be 26/26 wheel bike.
Petri

Nojapyöräfoorumi toimii hyvin, aina saa vastauksen vaikkei kysyiskään mitään.

David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 03 Huhti 2016, 13:07

Thanks Petri & Riku.

I didn't expect that answer. I assumed the Giro 20 would have been better as it'd be easier to put a foot down if necessary.
I have been wanting to trial the 26ATT with wider tyres for a while. I have read that some people use them for some off-road riding with wide off-road tyres. At present it has 1.25 inch road tyres. I took it recently down a very steep, gravel mountain bike track as I wanted to get from where I was to a road taking a short cut. It was so steep and the gravel loose, that I definitely did not want to walk down. So ride it I did. It was exciting to say the least. We made it without incident. Lots of gentle braking and mostly with one foot off the pedals.

Now to try out some wider tyres that I have lying around unused.

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Wacky
Pistosuojattu sisällöntuottaja
Viestit: 2983
Liittynyt: 14 Heinä 2010, 12:38
Paikkakunta: Helsinki, Vesala

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja Wacky » 03 Huhti 2016, 14:11

Putting your foot down to break a fall is usually a bad idea as you're more likely to sprain or break something that way. And most of they time you fall so fast you don't have time to react anyway.
- Richard "Riku" Griffin
Savenmaa Alku (2010 - 2011) Azub Bufo (2011 - 2014) MetaPhrastic.28 (2012 ->) MetaPhat (2013 - 2017) Nopia (2017 ->) Specbike Extrim (2017 ->)

vaaka
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Viestit: 3070
Liittynyt: 10 Maalis 2015, 09:13

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja vaaka » 03 Huhti 2016, 21:46

Snow packs up unevenly so your teeth will be chattering and at speeds the bike tries to buck you off like a horse if you have thin high pressure tires. So anything that allows wider tires than the Fujin shall be superior for winter riding. Given tough enough gloves and praying not getting arm injuries the only benefits of sitting closer to the spray of the front wheel is falling from a lower height and the theoretical possibility of assisting balance with the hands. Armored gloves are mandatory because even those may be punctured by killer stone spikes we have in erm not spades but by the truck load. I think a couple of hundreds of tons of split=sharp bed rock=the hardest stuff there is among non precious stones is spread onto the streets each winter in greater Helsinki area.

Another plus for bikes with clearance for spiked tires is that the clearance that allows plusher rides of 2" or wider tires can alternatively take wide tires, spiked tires or fairly wide spiked tires. Mud guards can be surprisingly restricting for spiked tires. Spiked tires are the best thing you can do for ride quality, fun and safety. Next up are mud guards. Imagine laying under a garbage chute from the legs to the eyes being subjected to snow and grime for the length of a ride. Mud guards start to sound better as well as sitting above the worst of the snow cloud coming from the front wheel sitting on a higher bench right?

David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 04 Huhti 2016, 07:37

Thanks Vaaka. Do you think road tyres, dual purpose tyres or off-road tyres?
I guess it depends on the weather at the time though. If there is any snow about.

David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 04 Huhti 2016, 07:43

The 26ATT has mudguards. The weather in southern Finland seems so unpredictable. I have experienced a couple of black Christmases in Espoo, but sometimes there's a fair bit of snow in January & February.

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NikoK
Treenaileva sisällöntuottaja
Viestit: 579
Liittynyt: 12 Huhti 2014, 12:17
Paikkakunta: Espoo
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Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja NikoK » 04 Huhti 2016, 07:53

Solutions to look for in the bike to ride in the winter are well covered in the above messages. But clothing is rather important too. In southern Finland the temperature range can vary between +10C and -30C during those 5 weeks. Preparing for cold weather is not an easy task without experience. Of course, one doesn't "have to" ride in those -30 days, but even -10 could be a shock for the unprepared. I remember you are from Australia ? Doesn't mean you are no experienced in dealing with colder weather, but are you ? And in cycling in particular i mean.

My wife started working again after a while (5years) and wanted to start cycling to work. It happened that when she started we had those -30 weathers, she couldn't start cycling to work right away. So different clothing needed that it's a must to know first that how much clothing you need for somewhat warmer weather.

Edit: Sorry, reread your first message and it seems you are experienced in winter cycling indeed, but without a recumbent!

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NikoK
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Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja NikoK » 04 Huhti 2016, 08:18

My choice for tyres are the spiked ones. They seem to be very puncture resistant on the roads covered with sharp gravel (it's worst when the gravel is on the asphalt and not on snow, normal situation from November to whenever the snow comes). I started last winter on Marathon Mondial which should be very puncture resistant, but they were not... I switched to Schwalbe Ive Spiker / Marathon Winter and only had one puncture during the rest of the winter. The spiked tyres are not as slow as one would think, but it feels like that because of the sound they make ! :mrgreen:

Does anyone have an idea why spiked tyres are more puncture resistant, i don't... Maybe they are made of harder rubber to keep the spikes in place better ?

David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 04 Huhti 2016, 09:53

Thanks NikoK.
In my mind I was only thinking of snow or no snow, wet or dry, but in reality there's possibly black ice or ice under a light layer of snow.
I have never used spiked or studded tyres, but thinking now, these would be preferred rather than chance slipping and an injury. I assume further north the snow and temperature is more regular, and more consistently below zero, therefore less freezing then thawing of rain/snow/water.

When my first winter of commuting to work (in Finland) came, it took a while to figure out the clothing. In the beginning I would have too many clothes on and get too hot and have to stop and strip off the gloves and open the jacket fully. I think I tried 4 or 5 different pairs of gloves to get the right combination (gloves/mittens/inner gloves).

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Wacky
Pistosuojattu sisällöntuottaja
Viestit: 2983
Liittynyt: 14 Heinä 2010, 12:38
Paikkakunta: Helsinki, Vesala

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja Wacky » 04 Huhti 2016, 16:47

Nobbly tires are better resistant to the sharp crushed rock they use and as most spiked tires are quite nobbly they will tend to work well. Nobbly tires also work best in softpacked surfaced, but will roll poorly on very hard ones as I'm pretty sure you already know.
- Richard "Riku" Griffin
Savenmaa Alku (2010 - 2011) Azub Bufo (2011 - 2014) MetaPhrastic.28 (2012 ->) MetaPhat (2013 - 2017) Nopia (2017 ->) Specbike Extrim (2017 ->)

vaaka
Pistosuojattu sisällöntuottaja
Viestit: 3070
Liittynyt: 10 Maalis 2015, 09:13

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja vaaka » 05 Huhti 2016, 08:10

I look at winter riding as an exercise period for the summer, because there is no getting around of increased rolling resistance.

Increased durability of some winter tires come from several factors. I have probably around 1500 km on 622 Schwalbe Marathon Winters. Their studs sink into snow but any time a stud lands on gravel shards it is metal on rock instead of risking cutting and embedding into rubber. To be worsened each revolution.

The MW has thinner knobs than many and IIRC Ice Spiker has significantly deeper and fewer knobs and less so on the corner between the bottom and the side of the tire. Explaining why i have heard people complain about lost grip when cornering with the Ice Spiker. OTOH when upright the Ice Spiker should have more grip when upright especially with the larger spikes. Shedding spikes is a longevity issue and maybe the larger spikes of the IS get twisted harder because i have heard of shedding. No such trouble for my MW. But i rode in well. Maybe 50 km on clear asphalt when 30 is the usual recommendation of pushing the lugs into the knob for less height thus less torque pulling the lug out and more rubber to metal area meaning grip and staying power.

One should tilt the bike in corners in breaking in period to ensure proper sticking of the corner lugs which is a double concern with the IS, damn i noticed it means another thing than Ice Spiker bike tire as well so hi to flaggers, because they have fewer lugs in the side and losing a lug reduces grip more than with the evenly spaced many more spikes in the corners havin MW.

It may be how i drive my upright, but i have not had other problems with grip with the MWs than mushy deep snow breaking under me or hitting a diagonal groove on ice.

I do not know the inners of Ice Spikers but the very heavy Marathon has reinforced side walls and a very thick puncture protection belt. I think 5 mm deep in the center getting thinner toward the edges.

Others drive faster recumbent by a large margin so i have only a granny riding experience vs some racers here.

Winter is hell for the lungs so check out http://www.jonas.fi/ I use Jonaset Sport and i need to use Essilor Optifog activator on specially designed lenses on my eye glasses to avoid fogging up. You can bend the mask to adjust how warm the incoming air is. Can be 20 C plus even on coldest days. If you have glasses hope you can use contacts. I cannot.

David
Viestit: 25
Liittynyt: 09 Maalis 2015, 08:55

Re: Which winter bike?

ViestiKirjoittaja David » 29 Kesä 2016, 15:18

How many of you ride normal bikes in the winter instead of recumbents?

I am considering bringing a single speed 29er mountain bike instead of a recumbent ... or buy a used bike, or borrow one. We'll be there for 5 weeks so I can't go 5 weeks without riding.


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